Sweet Jesus, Again?

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I actually thought I was done publicly complaining about Dan Savage’s intractable bigotry, but here I am again.

Why? Because, instead of giving any real thought to the points raised by his fucking badass colleague Lindy West last week, he has simply quoted and linked to a post he wrote after I said the same basic shit three years ago. A post titled “Sweet Jesus, Kate Harding is Such a Dishonest, Paranoid Douchebag,”* and in which he A) accuses me of scrubbing a post by way of fake-complimenting my integrity (in reality, he didn’t find it because the post in question was published at Shakesville, not my site, and not long after that, a DDOS attack took Shakesville down, and when it went back up, a bunch of shit was lost) and B) delivers the delightful closing line, “And you are, of course, not allowed to say [that eating and exercise have any impact on weight]—lest the codependent thought police, in the guise of Ms. Harding, jump down your throat.”

Since that was published, I have had one (1) reasonably cordial e-mail exchange with Dan Savage on an unrelated matter, and he even said something nice about me in public once. So I sort of figured we had put that thing where he called me a dishonest, paranoid douchebag behind us? GUESS NOT.

And three years later, he still apparently cannot understand what people like Lindy West and I–and Marilyn Wann, who had the same conversation with him before Lindy was even born, I think–are saying here. I will try one more time to make the crucial point as simply as possible before I give up forever.

Dear Dan,

We are not asking for your approval of our choices.

We are not asking you to find us attractive.

We are not asking for your scientific opinion.

We are not asking you to stop secretly judging death fats or being vigilant about everything that goes into your mouth.

We are asking you to stop being a fucking bigoted dick in public.

And you keep saying no.

*To be fair, I’ll note that this was in response to a post of mine titled, “Sweet Jesus, I Hate Dan Savage” (which was a riff on “Sweet Jesus, I Hate Chris Matthews,” a blog that started up around the same time).  And if he had actually responded in kind, or even just gone with “Such a Douchebag,” I wouldn’t still be pissed in 2011. But “dishonest” is a fightin’ word, and he’s just made it an issue again.

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48 thoughts on “Sweet Jesus, Again?”

  2. I love that comments are closed. Shit like this enrages me and makes oppression worse for everyone. Incredibly counterproductive Dan.

    I will never understand how someone can actively work towards ending oppression for one group while oppressing another, you are basically making sure that you never end oppression.

  3. WOW.

    So, am I to assume from this that Dan Savage thinks fat people are a monolith, and so whatever he says to one can just be repeated to another, with no change?

    OR am I to assume that Dan Savage has so very, VERY little respect for his colleague, who made reasonable points and had legitimate criticisms which he ought to consider in good faith, that he can’t be bothered to give her a reply that involves any more work than a cut-and-paste job?

    Maybe both?

    I mean, seriously, this is a guy who comes up with new responses every time some dumbass writes to his column with made-up questions. He can’t write ONE original sentence in response to legitimate criticisms?

    • Right? I mean, Lindy West (whom I do not know, btw, although we are now mutual twitterfrendz) writes a post that manages to excite a bunch of us who have written the same basic points 8 bazillion times, because it is THAT good, and THAT funny, and THAT thoughtful, and Savage is like, “Yeah, I’m not even gonna bother.” Charming.

    • It’s sad to see Dan Savage’s IQ dropping right before our very eyes, reduced to quoting his previous posts, without context, without sense. Maybe we should give him some stickers that say ‘UR RONG’ and he can just stick them onto websites he disagrees with, while giggling about how awesome he is.

  5. His lovely work on the “It Gets Better” campaign fortunately notwithstanding, Dan Savage has always struck me as a non-reflective, self-absorbed, preening and snark addicted, impossibly shallow little fuck.

    Personally, I’d rather be a mile wide than an inch deep.

  8. I think the point I keep getting from him is that he doesn’t think that it IS bigoted to talk the way he does about fat people. He acts like he is genuinely concerned about the health of the overweight, but then talks about them in a derogatory way.

    Not ALL overweight people are unhealthy, in the same way that not all gay men are at a risk for HIV because of unprotected sex, so it is kind of like the old thought that being a gay man is a super risky and dangerous lifestyle. Which, duh, it isn’t, and that is totally bigoted to say and he would yell at anyone who did say that. But I doubt he’ll ever recognize that, and just keep acting like he’s REALLY REALLY CONCERNED for all the ugly fat ladies in the world. Really concerned, enough to shame them publicly.

    • Oh yeah, I’m sure he truly believes he’s no bigot (talking about “unsightly rolls” and water displacement in South Dakota pools, and comparing fat to heroin abuse, etc., is all just a matter of dropping “tame facts”), and that he’ll always come away from these kerfuffles looking better than the (hysterical! ridiculous!) people calling him one. It’s almost sad that he can’t even see what a jackass he keeps making of himself. Almost.

      • “It’s almost sad that he can’t even see what a jackass he keeps making of himself. Almost.”

        My theory is that the River DeNial lacks the normal reflective propteries of bodies of water, in addition to vapors which produce cognative dissonance.

  9. I’m sorry. I’m still unable to get past the fact that his employee, Lindy West, put herself out there in a way that had to be terrifying, opening herself up to ugly, ugly comments, and Dan Savage could not even be bothered to actually respond except with “what I said to Kate Harding.”

    What can one even say in the face of that? He’s not just failing as a person; he’s being a horrible boss.

  10. Tee hee hee. He’s like the kid who turns in the same paper for multiple classes and is all, “WHAT? I still think the same thing!”

  11. I guess “it” only gets better if you’re gay and thin? Because if you’re gay and fat, Dan Savage will be there to make sure it doesn’t.

    What an asshole.

    • LIKE!

      Seriously, you’re so right.

      Apparently, in Dan Savage’s world, “It Gets Better” only if you never get fat. Because if you get fat, then he’s done siding with you against people who would bully you for being different, and instead will join the bullies in kicking you every chance he gets.

  12. I can’t get over just how fucking lazy he was, to just CUT AND PASTE. What a fucking arrogant douchenozzle. Apparently his time is SO much more important than Lindy’s.

    I can practically hear him. These bodies and fat people aren’t going to shame themselves!

  13. I tried to think of something pithy and insightful to say, but all I can think of are the words “Fuck” and “Ugh!

    • Awww, Dan Savage is getting “fathateshamed.” Shaming fat people and shaming people for stigmatizing entire groups of people teh same thing. Totally equalz.

      And he employs the “I know a ______” “I touched a ______ once” tactic. Classy.

    • Oh, for crying out loud, now he’s got me commenting over there. (Scroll down one for the actual links to arm pics.)

      This reminds me of the time when someone asked in my comments–rhetorically, which was obvious to everyone else–why it’s so important to white fat women to believe that black guys really do like fat chicks more than white guys do. And I got in this whole big stupid argument, in which I declared — like the good, non-racist, cookie-deserving person YOU ALL BETTER BELIEVE I AM BECAUSE IT’S ALL ABOUT ME DUH — that although I don’t believe that, I can empathize with women who cling to it, because yeah, anecdotally… there was a time when that was definitely my experience. BLAH BLAH FUCKING BLAH WHATEVER.

      And I got like 80 comments down in the thread before I realized the original comment was not a sincere, “Why do some white women believe this?” but an understandably frustrated, venty, “Why won’t some white women quit talking about shit they know nothing about?” And then I was like, “Ohhhh, yeah. So I’ve been fucking up here!”

      And then I realized I was that privileged asshole who kept missing the point, and I shut up.

      I keep waiting for Savage to get to that point. I imagine I’ll be waiting a while.

      P.S. I ate chocolate cake while typing this comment. It was delicious.

  16. I think, sadly folks, this might say it all:

    “The ultimate irony in all of this? I still feel like the fat kid.”

  17. All righty, folks, I’m going to bed now, so won’t be checking the mod queue for a while. As a reminder, all first time commenters go to moderation, and comments will close automatically 24 hours after the post went up (so around 6 p.m. CST on Tuesday, I think).

  19. As soon as I got wind of DS’s lazy-ass (lazy! lazy!) cut-and-paste job, I knew you’d have something great to say about it. You’re so right. It’s not that he doesn’t get it, it’s that he doesn’t want it. It would literally melt his brain to look at fat people as individual people, rather than a single blobby, donut-snorting monolith. The least he could do is admit he can’t address the subject with any reasonable degree of objectivity, and abstain from commenting any further.

  20. Ugh, how the hell did this thing auto-enter my whole name? technology fail! Kate – do you mind rejecting/deleting the comment above? Apologies. I’ll come back and try again when I am not hopped up on cold meds.

  21. OMG. I’m totally blowing all my Sanity Watchers points by reading comments on DS’s “I’m not the enemy” thing, but I think it was worth it for this gem alone.

    The laws of thermodynamics prove this. It’s basic physics people. If a person burns more energy than it consumes, a person will lose weight. This basic scientific fact cannot be disputed. Yes, some people have higher metabolisms and burn more energy at rest than others, while others have slower metabolisms and store more of the energy they consume as fat. It does not change the laws of physics.

    “Yes, the laws of ‘physics’ change, but that does not change the laws of physics!”

    I’m laughing so hard, if I’m not careful I’m gonna roll my fat ass over one of my cats.

  22. I truly don’t understand why he’s SO VERY INVESTED in his fat hate. Is it some form of hazing? “Hey, when I was fat I got hated on, and now I’m skinny, so it’s my turn!”

    Which makes him a bigger asshat than if he had always been skinny, I think.

  23. Can i refer to all the people in the LGBT community as ‘the gays’ because I want to smash my head into my laptop screen if I read ‘the obese’ again. Way to dehumanize a whole class of people Dan.

    • OMG! YES!

      Well, no, not “Yes, you’re allowed to call folks in the LGBT community ‘the gays’.”

      More like, YES! I totally had the same reaction to DS’s use of “the obese” and found it completely rage-inducing!

    • Uh, no? Because it totally renders invisible those of us who are not gay but are LBTQ+? And because nobody held a LGBTQ+ summit and elected Dan Savage our leader?

      He’s just one nasty, fatphobic gay guy (also biphobic and transphobic, for the record) who unfortunately has a larger platform than the vast majority of folks in LGBTQ+ communities.

      I’m seriously disturbed that your reaction to Savage’s awfulness was, “Oh, I know! I’m gonna lash out against queer people!” Not cool.

      ~ Just Some Fat Pansexual Trans Guy, who really shouldn’t be made to symbolically suffer for Dan Savage’s sins

      • JSTG, my impression was that fatwaitress was being sarcastic about actually wanting to do that, since she recognizes how dehumanizing it is — but I’m still glad you made all the points in this comment.

        • Yeah, I do understand that the comment was sarcastic. But it still hit me wrong, for some reason–I guess partly because, a lot of people DO non-sarcastically and hatefully refer to LGBT communities as “the gays.” (If they’re not using other terminology.)

          But eh, I dunno, maybe I’m just cranky. Dan does that to me. Sorry, fatwaitress, if I read things you weren’t saying.

  24. Sigh. Sadly, I don’t think Dan Savage will ever stop being a horrible bigot. He doesn’t understand, and he doesn’t want to understand, and ugh.

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