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	<title>Comments on: In Defense of the MFA</title>
	<atom:link href="http://kateharding.info/2007/04/16/the-great-mfa-debate/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://kateharding.info/2007/04/16/the-great-mfa-debate/</link>
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		<title>By: motherhoodanextremesport</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.info/2007/04/16/the-great-mfa-debate/#comment-291</link>
		<dc:creator>motherhoodanextremesport</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://khauthor.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-291</guid>
		<description>Thank you so much for this. I get so tired of hearing the bad MFA talk too, mostly because I worked really hard to get a my graduate degree to be told it&#039;s a load of crap. An MFA is rigorous, but the skeptics never really mention that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you so much for this. I get so tired of hearing the bad MFA talk too, mostly because I worked really hard to get a my graduate degree to be told it&#8217;s a load of crap. An MFA is rigorous, but the skeptics never really mention that.</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.info/2007/04/16/the-great-mfa-debate/#comment-275</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:22:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://khauthor.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-275</guid>
		<description>I find the criticisms leveled at MFA programs largely ridiculous. Most frequently I hear that MFA programs are ripping off the no-talents they have scammed into attending. First, my MFA program pays me to attend. I receive free tuition, a generous stipend, and summer funding in exchange for just writing. I don&#039;t even have a teaching requirement. Second, my program does not accept all comers. When I applied, my genre received 440 applications for 4 spots. With acceptance levels so low, I had to develop a work ethic well before I was accepted. No one&#039;s getting in with unfinished stories full of typos and cliches. I cannot fathom why a developing writer who is offered an income to write and to seriously study writing should turn down the opportunity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find the criticisms leveled at MFA programs largely ridiculous. Most frequently I hear that MFA programs are ripping off the no-talents they have scammed into attending. First, my MFA program pays me to attend. I receive free tuition, a generous stipend, and summer funding in exchange for just writing. I don&#8217;t even have a teaching requirement. Second, my program does not accept all comers. When I applied, my genre received 440 applications for 4 spots. With acceptance levels so low, I had to develop a work ethic well before I was accepted. No one&#8217;s getting in with unfinished stories full of typos and cliches. I cannot fathom why a developing writer who is offered an income to write and to seriously study writing should turn down the opportunity.</p>
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		<title>By: Thank you, Kate! &#171; Life After M.F.A.</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.info/2007/04/16/the-great-mfa-debate/#comment-203</link>
		<dc:creator>Thank you, Kate! &#171; Life After M.F.A.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://khauthor.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-203</guid>
		<description>[...] Thank you,&#160;Kate!  Jump to Comments  As if I didn&#8217;t already think she was brilliant&#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Thank you,&nbsp;Kate!  Jump to Comments  As if I didn&#8217;t already think she was brilliant&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Uma</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.info/2007/04/16/the-great-mfa-debate/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Uma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 23:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://khauthor.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-31</guid>
		<description>Thank you. That&#039;s the smartest rebuttal of the Sod-the-MFA argument that I&#039;ve heard in a while.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you. That&#8217;s the smartest rebuttal of the Sod-the-MFA argument that I&#8217;ve heard in a while.</p>
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		<title>By: Siobhan</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.info/2007/04/16/the-great-mfa-debate/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>Siobhan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 15:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://khauthor.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-30</guid>
		<description>V. interesting post, Kate. 

I haven&#039;t been privy to the &quot;MFAs create too many bad writers&quot; complaint before. If anything, as a grad student and non-MFA writer, I&#039;d say the accusation I most often hear is that MFA programs *don&#039;t* create writers. The MFA provides a structure that demands a certain degree of productivity, but once a student leaves with a degree there&#039;s no guarantee that he or she will have the discipline &amp; work ethic necessary to keep writing. 

Now, that&#039;s true of all degrees. I guess the thing is with MFAs is that I run into a lot of undergraduates who have I-talk-about-my-novel-rather-than-writing-it syndrome, and who look to the MFA as the solution. When are they going to write their novel? Well, after they&#039;ve got their MFA, of course. And while there are a few of them who might genuinely be so anxious about committing literary faux pas that they are putting off writing until they learn their craft well, the truth is the majority of those people *really* wanted to be authors, they&#039;d already be writing. 

So if I have any suspicions concerning MFA programs, it&#039;s only in the sense that I&#039;ve run into some people (inside and outside MFA programs) for whom an MFA degree is the equivalent of the New Years&#039; gym membership purchase. Sure, the degree/gym membership will help you achieve your goal if you use it, but it isn&#039;t going to magically install motivation and discipline.

As for the value of individual programs, well, obviously they vary. And I&#039;ve read a lot of excellent writing in a variety of genres that came from authors with MFAs, so I don&#039;t buy the argument that these programs destroy your ability to write popular fiction, either. (Though I have to say, I&#039;ve found the longer I&#039;ve been in academia the harder I find it to adapt my writing to different audiences.) 

If there&#039;s anything I have a concern about in MFA programs is that they can, I think, lead people to imbibe and reinscribe the set of genre conventions belonging to &#039;literary&#039; fiction. Certainly I can think of times that I&#039;ve been reading a novel and been annoyed by the insertion of a self-consciously clever device that seems (to me) more calculated to please a class professor than the average reader. But bad writing, as you point out, is everywhere, and at least authors with MFA degrees do it better than most.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>V. interesting post, Kate. </p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t been privy to the &#8220;MFAs create too many bad writers&#8221; complaint before. If anything, as a grad student and non-MFA writer, I&#8217;d say the accusation I most often hear is that MFA programs *don&#8217;t* create writers. The MFA provides a structure that demands a certain degree of productivity, but once a student leaves with a degree there&#8217;s no guarantee that he or she will have the discipline &amp; work ethic necessary to keep writing. </p>
<p>Now, that&#8217;s true of all degrees. I guess the thing is with MFAs is that I run into a lot of undergraduates who have I-talk-about-my-novel-rather-than-writing-it syndrome, and who look to the MFA as the solution. When are they going to write their novel? Well, after they&#8217;ve got their MFA, of course. And while there are a few of them who might genuinely be so anxious about committing literary faux pas that they are putting off writing until they learn their craft well, the truth is the majority of those people *really* wanted to be authors, they&#8217;d already be writing. </p>
<p>So if I have any suspicions concerning MFA programs, it&#8217;s only in the sense that I&#8217;ve run into some people (inside and outside MFA programs) for whom an MFA degree is the equivalent of the New Years&#8217; gym membership purchase. Sure, the degree/gym membership will help you achieve your goal if you use it, but it isn&#8217;t going to magically install motivation and discipline.</p>
<p>As for the value of individual programs, well, obviously they vary. And I&#8217;ve read a lot of excellent writing in a variety of genres that came from authors with MFAs, so I don&#8217;t buy the argument that these programs destroy your ability to write popular fiction, either. (Though I have to say, I&#8217;ve found the longer I&#8217;ve been in academia the harder I find it to adapt my writing to different audiences.) </p>
<p>If there&#8217;s anything I have a concern about in MFA programs is that they can, I think, lead people to imbibe and reinscribe the set of genre conventions belonging to &#8216;literary&#8217; fiction. Certainly I can think of times that I&#8217;ve been reading a novel and been annoyed by the insertion of a self-consciously clever device that seems (to me) more calculated to please a class professor than the average reader. But bad writing, as you point out, is everywhere, and at least authors with MFA degrees do it better than most.</p>
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		<title>By: Sara A.</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.info/2007/04/16/the-great-mfa-debate/#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>Sara A.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://khauthor.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-29</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s worth noting that Flannery O&#039;Connor was a graduate of the Iowa Writer&#039;s Workshop....MFA Iowa State University, 1947.

Just sayin&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s worth noting that Flannery O&#8217;Connor was a graduate of the Iowa Writer&#8217;s Workshop&#8230;.MFA Iowa State University, 1947.</p>
<p>Just sayin&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Some Guy</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.info/2007/04/16/the-great-mfa-debate/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>Some Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 05:52:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://khauthor.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-27</guid>
		<description>This should be required reading before anyone is allowed to even say the letters MFA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This should be required reading before anyone is allowed to even say the letters MFA.</p>
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		<title>By: Arwen</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.info/2007/04/16/the-great-mfa-debate/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>Arwen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 05:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://khauthor.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-9</guid>
		<description>Thank you, KH. Can&#039;t spend long, but thanks a lot, and I&#039;m going to have to muse on that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, KH. Can&#8217;t spend long, but thanks a lot, and I&#8217;m going to have to muse on that.</p>
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		<title>By: kateharding</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.info/2007/04/16/the-great-mfa-debate/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>kateharding</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://khauthor.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-7</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;So, would you recommend an MFA for getting me a closer to the industry generally? Teaching, editing, leading workshops, working in publishing: if my heart’s in fiction, I’m figuring it would be less crazy-making to make my basic (not lavish) living in the industry around it.&lt;/i&gt;


Arwen, I think it depends on the program, and which of those potential other careers you&#039;re most interested in. Contacts aren&#039;t really &lt;i&gt;guaranteed&lt;/i&gt; anywhere, but as Screwsan (with whom I went to grad school) said, there are all sorts of different networking opportunities at every program. You can go somewhere with a faculty that&#039;s useless, career-wise (or useful but hates you), and 3 years later, one of your friends from the program points you toward a great job opportunity or introduces you to her agent. You never know. 

Having said that... If you want to teach at the college level, then you want a well-respected full-residency program where you can get lots of experience, and at this point, you might even want a PhD in creative writing. (Note, I have friends from Vermont who teach at the college level now, and you can get a job teaching comp anywhere, but in terms of the insanely competitive market for tenure-track positions, that scenario would maximize your odds. Which would still suck.) If you want contacts for getting published, you want Iowa or a top-notch school in New York. If you want to work in the publishing industry, the publishing programs at Radcliffe, Denver, or Columbia might be better than an MFA. Depending on where you want to teach workshops, you don&#039;t even necessarily need an MFA, but one from anywhere would be fine. And if you want to spend 2 years obsessively focusing on your writing, getting constant edits, and not having to teach or endure too many workshops, I cannot recommend low-res enough. 

One caution: a big part of the reason I left publishing is that it sapped the writing part of my brain. I loved the work, the people, and being around books, but I could not edit books and write my own stuff simultaneously. It&#039;s not true of everyone, of course (hence the term &quot;writer-editor&quot;), but paying the bills with a totally &lt;i&gt;un&lt;/i&gt;related job is sometimes the best course of action.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>So, would you recommend an MFA for getting me a closer to the industry generally? Teaching, editing, leading workshops, working in publishing: if my heart’s in fiction, I’m figuring it would be less crazy-making to make my basic (not lavish) living in the industry around it.</i></p>
<p>Arwen, I think it depends on the program, and which of those potential other careers you&#8217;re most interested in. Contacts aren&#8217;t really <i>guaranteed</i> anywhere, but as Screwsan (with whom I went to grad school) said, there are all sorts of different networking opportunities at every program. You can go somewhere with a faculty that&#8217;s useless, career-wise (or useful but hates you), and 3 years later, one of your friends from the program points you toward a great job opportunity or introduces you to her agent. You never know. </p>
<p>Having said that&#8230; If you want to teach at the college level, then you want a well-respected full-residency program where you can get lots of experience, and at this point, you might even want a PhD in creative writing. (Note, I have friends from Vermont who teach at the college level now, and you can get a job teaching comp anywhere, but in terms of the insanely competitive market for tenure-track positions, that scenario would maximize your odds. Which would still suck.) If you want contacts for getting published, you want Iowa or a top-notch school in New York. If you want to work in the publishing industry, the publishing programs at Radcliffe, Denver, or Columbia might be better than an MFA. Depending on where you want to teach workshops, you don&#8217;t even necessarily need an MFA, but one from anywhere would be fine. And if you want to spend 2 years obsessively focusing on your writing, getting constant edits, and not having to teach or endure too many workshops, I cannot recommend low-res enough. </p>
<p>One caution: a big part of the reason I left publishing is that it sapped the writing part of my brain. I loved the work, the people, and being around books, but I could not edit books and write my own stuff simultaneously. It&#8217;s not true of everyone, of course (hence the term &#8220;writer-editor&#8221;), but paying the bills with a totally <i>un</i>related job is sometimes the best course of action.</p>
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		<title>By: screwsan</title>
		<link>http://kateharding.info/2007/04/16/the-great-mfa-debate/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>screwsan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://khauthor.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-6</guid>
		<description>I always think it&#039;s hilarious when media folks claim that having an MFA can actually hurt your chances of publishing a novel because no one wants to publish the same cookie-cutter MFA writers blah blah blah. Dude, I worked in big publishing and currently work in small publishing. Editors don&#039;t care if you have an MFA an MBA or an STD if your work is good. In fact, when I read manuscript submissions, I read the bio the very last, if at all.

The way the MFA can help is maybe you meet some people in your program who know some people who can point you towards an agent, or you becomes BFFs with someone who run her own small press, or maybe you get some folks together and start your own. MFAs are great places to network, and anybody who doesn&#039;t think networking is important for artistes should re-read your post about finding an agent.

Anyway, great post, obvs!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always think it&#8217;s hilarious when media folks claim that having an MFA can actually hurt your chances of publishing a novel because no one wants to publish the same cookie-cutter MFA writers blah blah blah. Dude, I worked in big publishing and currently work in small publishing. Editors don&#8217;t care if you have an MFA an MBA or an STD if your work is good. In fact, when I read manuscript submissions, I read the bio the very last, if at all.</p>
<p>The way the MFA can help is maybe you meet some people in your program who know some people who can point you towards an agent, or you becomes BFFs with someone who run her own small press, or maybe you get some folks together and start your own. MFAs are great places to network, and anybody who doesn&#8217;t think networking is important for artistes should re-read your post about finding an agent.</p>
<p>Anyway, great post, obvs!</p>
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